|
Post by Lady SilverVixen (Admin) on Jan 18, 2011 13:03:07 GMT -5
Just one to stir up a bit of debate as the UK census looms and the Pagan Federation has a campaign to get various pagans to put 'pagan' down as their religion.
Do you think official pagan churches/temples/etc would be a good thing? If various pagan groups has the same kind of structure and status as Catholicism or Islam for example? What do you think it would look like if it happened?
Food for thought.
|
|
|
Post by opalraven on Jan 18, 2011 16:31:43 GMT -5
Personally myself I think it could be a bad thing, it may be well and good in the beginning but through time an official pagan church like all other oragnaized religions would proberly end up going the same way with a set of rules everyone is expected to follow and with how diverse "Pagan" based religions are no one would ever be able to agree on anything. although I think people should be allowed to put down what ever religion they follow down on any forms if they so wish even if its not recognised by "authority bodies" but for now I guess we will have to stick to the "other" section.
Love and Light
|
|
|
Post by Lady Silver Vixen on Jan 19, 2011 12:44:39 GMT -5
I think it has it's pro's and con's, but honestly, I think it would be better if more people stepped up and said they were pagan, and then do their own thing (privately or with a coven). I just see so many issues that could come from going into such an open status over a short period of time. Though I think it would help many feel a little more safe and feel they could be more open, there are a lot of other things that have to be taken into consideration.
Would be really cool to see a few temples go up and for them to be open to the public for public outreach programs and the like, but when you open up something like that, it just opens up a whole new can of worms for those who participate in it
|
|
|
Post by Lady SilverVixen (Admin) on Jan 20, 2011 8:38:46 GMT -5
I think the problem would be defining who was in and who was out. My other half studied early Christian theology and history and it took them over four hundred years to define the structure of the church, which books to include in the bible and whether Christ was considered to be the literal son of God or not.
I do think the positive side of an official church would be that it might reduce the number of covens run by inexperienced egotists or 13 year old High Priest/esses who don't know what Sabbats are.
On the other it would likely involve a power struggle with one group or tradition emerging as dominant and defining Wicca or Druidry or Heathenry etc, and those not affiliated with that group wouldn't be 'official'.
|
|
|
Post by Marcassa on Mar 3, 2011 14:14:57 GMT -5
I agree with Rowan on the pros of a standardized pagan church. However, I do not believe we will see this. If you look at the history of other religions a couple of things brought stabilization to them.
For the catholic church, it was by killing off christians who beliefs were outside of the determined doctrine. This meant the destruction of various groups like the Christian Mystics. This practice was common in the time period that it happened and I don't think we will see neo pagans physically killing each other off. Although, in my experience their use of words can be just as deadly just not deadly enough to actually stop people's beliefs.
For the Mormons, it took a martyr. I have often wondered if, especially here in the US, if that is what it will take. I horrific murder of a well known practitioner to wake up the community and shake us out of our own in fighting and give us common cause and a willingness to risk all to gain the same amount of respect and recognition as other religions. I hope not but it is a thought.
This week I was having this discussion with someone and I said that I didn't think Wicca would be organized any differently in 40 years than today. We can't even agree on what constitutes an ordained clergy person in Wicca, how are we ever going to see consensus on a set of beliefs practices and even a building type?
|
|
|
Post by Lady SilverVixen (Admin) on Mar 3, 2011 18:29:01 GMT -5
I think it could happen, though not through martyrdom or murder. I see it taking place much in the same way Paul's Christianity became the most dominant, by a single group or tradition being the most prevalent, advertised and organised, though other groups and traditions may not (and most likely won't) agree with it.
Paul's view on Christianity is vastly different from James' or John's but it's the most common view we have because Paul was such a good orator, established churches where he went and traveled extensively.
I believe it'll be the same way with Paganism or Wicca or Druidry in the future, but I doubt I'll be alive to see it happen!
|
|
|
Post by Aquafish on Mar 3, 2011 23:39:25 GMT -5
Perhaps. But if you look around you see changes starting to snowball. With understanding becoming more prevalent it just may happen sooner than you think.
|
|
|
Post by Wastedenergy on Mar 5, 2011 2:10:45 GMT -5
There Ironically were pagan churches (well they were more like a Council who tried to define modern Witchcraft) a while back called the New Reformed Orthodox Order of The Golden Dawn, and The Council of American Witches.
"The groups [New Reformed Orthodox Order of The Golden Dawn] were closest on ethics. All agreed with the basic Wiccan Creed -- 'Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Love is the law, love under will." Most agreed that is was unethical to "Forcefully violate a persons autonomy." Most affirmed the divinity of all living beings NROOGD's (New Reformed Orthadox Order of the Golden Dawn) statement was the strongest." (Drawing Down The Moon Witches, Druids, Goddess Worshipers, and Other Pagans in America Today Revised and Expanded Edison by Margot Adler Page 101)
Then in 1974 The Council of American Witches defined modern Witchcraft, this soon became the 13 Wiccan Principles. However The Council of American Witches soon disbanded the next year.
While the NROOGD still remains (mostly in small covens on the Coast of California) they have no central authority. If any "Church" was to be made, they would have to have a few things
1. Easy Access to most people 2. The ability to keep members private 3. No central authority 4. No central rules 5. Multiple covens 6. The ability to deal with "frauds"
To me the idea of a Pagan "Church" seems out there, one could possibly exist and even flourish. There will be many problems (Such as dealing with Fundamentalist Christians, who protest and might even attack such buildings) that these churches will face.
Personally I think it would be better if it acted as a community center, to teach and educate the general population about Paganism and Neopagan Religions , because there are still allot of ignorance surrounding the Pagan community.
|
|
|
Post by Lady Silver Vixen on Mar 5, 2011 9:13:05 GMT -5
There is a sub-branch of the Unitarian Universalist Church's call CUUPS. Although I'm still looking more into it all, I have found that the CUUPS Chapters are entirely pagan (p in cuups stands for pagan) and they actually do help their local communities, attend a church that doesn't push only one view, and it's supposedly very laid back and relaxed. People who attend say there is no one right way to get anywhere, which is why there are so many religions, we all worship the same thing, we just call it by a different name and worship it differently. When I find more information out from a local lady who is trying to assemble a CUUPS Chapter here in my state, I'll get back to you all.
|
|
|
Post by Brysing on Mar 11, 2011 12:32:39 GMT -5
There are far too many "paths" of Paganism to be anything like a "church". The Pagan Federation have asked Pagans to enter their first choice as Pagan on the census form, but also to include other definitions, Pagan-Wicca, for instance, or Pagan-Druid.
|
|