|
Post by Lady SilverVixen (Admin) on Jan 26, 2011 7:45:25 GMT -5
I know some folks are involved in traditions or paths that don't work in groups anyway but I'd be interested to know what everyone thinks about the benefits and pitfalls of working either alone or in a coven/grove/circle/group.
|
|
|
Post by Marcassa on Mar 3, 2011 14:05:40 GMT -5
I would LOVE to be within a physical coven. Being in the Southern US neopagans are difficult to find and because I don't live in a large town, even harder to get together.
I owe a lot of my spiritual growth and knowledge to coven training; however, it was always done long distance with contact only at the Sabbats or gatherings.
I have also watched a lot of covens implode and would be extremely interested in the views of the High Priestesses and High Priests here on how that is avoided.
I, however, have known powerful and well educated and spiritual kind solitaries. I think part of the issues is how you prefer to learn and whether you are able to work successfully in the structure of a coven.
Either way, however, I believe learning an earth based practice is about the amount of time, effort and devotion you are willing to put in whether you seek training in the privacy of your own circle or the loving circle of a coven.
|
|
|
Post by Brysing on Mar 13, 2011 1:05:59 GMT -5
I began training,with a solitary witch, in 1947. It was then against the law in the UK, so it was kept very,very secret! I did not know or meet any other witches than my teacher. I was finally initiated by my teacher in 1954, by which time the practise of the Craft was legal. I never joined a coven because I could never find one! It is only recently (last year) that I joined a Pagan group; even that can hardly be called a coven,as the members all follow different paths.
|
|
|
Post by opalraven on Mar 13, 2011 8:06:29 GMT -5
Due to how far apart my beliefs are from the traditional form of Witchcraft and Wicca I think being a physical solitary works best for me . I think so long as a physical covens members share all the same core beliefs that is the key to a coven being successful, When there's a disagreement on the core beliefs thats when there's a danger of the coven imploding on itself, The best course of action would then be for that said person to find people of a like mind and belief system.
I view the structure of a coven like the eye of a hurricane it has to be calm at the center even though theres chaos around so long as all members share the calmness of the center of the core beliefs. With on-line covens like this one the structure changes with on-line covens there's room from different core beliefs and the benefit of learning other peoples views which wouldn't work with a physical coven.
Ultimately though the choice is a personal one both have their benefits and downfalls.
Love and Light OpalRaven
|
|
|
Post by Brysing on Mar 13, 2011 18:29:31 GMT -5
Solitary or coven. I would be interested in hearing about initiation. Mine was a long time ago (over fifty years) but I remember every detail as though it was yesterday. I know that solitaries will self-initiate; but I wonder if anybody has gone through the whole process as I did.
|
|
|
Post by Lady SilverVixen (Admin) on Mar 28, 2011 9:15:49 GMT -5
Solitary or coven. I would be interested in hearing about initiation. Mine was a long time ago (over fifty years) but I remember every detail as though it was yesterday. I know that solitaries will self-initiate; but I wonder if anybody has gone through the whole process as I did. If it's not private, can you share your initiatory experience with us?
|
|
|
Post by Brysing on Mar 29, 2011 1:01:05 GMT -5
I don't mind sharing. But it's knowing where to start! I went through a lot of learning and studying before my teacher agreed to initiation; and she carefully explained what was to happen, and why. That I would "die" ,then be reborn. Behind her house was a small orchard, and it was here, at night. I was naked and blindfolded; to simulate that Mother Earth sleeps/dies. I was whipped (not very hard) with a scourge, and bound with cord. My teacher then asked the Goddess to "watch over this human". All this time I was lying on the ground. My teacher, whilst I was still bound, kissed my feet, my hands, and my mouth. I was then freed of the bonds, and the blindfold, to signify "rebirth", as Mother Earth dies and is reborn every year. My teacher then called upon the Goddess to "seal my body and protect it". She then kissed all openings, eyes, ears, nostrils,mouth, penis, and anus. She then kissed both of my nipples. By the way, all this time we were inside the circle. My teacher then called me to "jump through the flames"; the fire was not very big. She then sprinkled me with water (to dry in the air). She then "opened the circle" and I stepped outside of it. She then gave thanks to all four "points"; North,East, South,West. Then she removed the circle. The ritual didn't take very long,perhaps 45 minutes or so. The ritual was all about Mother Earth, and the elements. I had been in contact with the ground (Earth) exposed to the air and water, and felt the heat of the fire. Together with the spirit of the Goddess, the ritual contained a pentagram within a circle, A pentacle.
|
|
|
Post by Brysing on Mar 29, 2011 1:27:19 GMT -5
One more thing. Mrs Marshall had me vow to keep her secrets, and reveal them to nobody. I have kept that vow all my life. Even though many of the "secrets" are now in the public domain; but not all of them!
|
|
|
Post by Lady SilverVixen (Admin) on Mar 29, 2011 4:53:32 GMT -5
Without breaking any oaths would it be possible for you to share some details of your tradition with us?
|
|
|
Post by Brysing on Mar 29, 2011 10:25:56 GMT -5
The first teachings I had were really about herbs, fungi,; which were poison and which not! The re-incarnation according to ancient witchcraft. How trees and plants grew. I read more later, around the 1960s, of Gerald Gardner, which seemed close to Mrs Marshal's teaching, and Alex Sanders, and that seemed even closer. But my teacher did not teach me anything about what might now be termed "high Magic". She was very much against trying to "control" the elements, and she thought that Aleister Crowley was evil. And after reading some of his works so do I. There are still some secrets that I would not care to reveal; but I may do if I come across them on the internet. I haven't had a computer very long. and I am constantly amazed at the amount of information on it! My teacher taught me of the ancient wisdom; the Gods, the Goddesses; especially of Egypt. Some secrets of that which I would not reveal unless I see them revealed elsewhere. I would ask my teacher about things like the little people, fairies, elves. She always would put little dishes of food out for the little people, but would often say, "I've never seen them; but I would like to know they are there.." When the food disappeared she would laugh and say, "Well, maybe the hedgehogs had a feast" (I still do it!). We didn't cast many spells; mainly healing (she made up countless oils and potions for various illnesses) and for peace in the world. She told me at one time that hundreds of witches cast spells against Germany and Japan during WW2; at that time she said that she knew many covens, but they were very secret until the Craft became legal in 1951. I visited Mrs Marshall often during many years, still learning from her, until she died in 1996, aged 91. I suppose mainly my teachings were of a "natural order of things", with some mysteries. (that I will not reveal at this time). My teacher taught me about the woodland spirits, that again she said she had never seen but liked the idea of them being there! She taught me all the meanings of Easter, Whitsuntide, Christmas, Halloween, etc. My teacher was a "wise woman" of the old school. She was gentle, kind, and very wise. I loved her very much like a "second mother".
|
|
|
Post by opalraven on Mar 29, 2011 16:11:06 GMT -5
You are very lucky to have shared a close bond with your teacher which is very much lacking in todays society, and some secrets should just be kept between two people it's a very intimate thing to share with someone and that trust should always be kept I'm sure your teacher is very proud of you wherever she is watching from. I have a dislike for Aleister Crowley works myself his ways have never sat well with me.
About the Fairy folk I've never seen them myself but I kid my daughter on all the time that she's gonna make the faeries unhappy when she drops litter (I have tried to teach all my children not to do that but occasion my daughter forgets) one day we where out and she dropped a gum wrapper..so I said you better pick that up and apologize to the fairys......Which she done..I jokily said see their happy now, later that day she found a £10 note ..so I said to her see thats because you picked it back up and apologized. She came home from school once in a bit of a bad mood..soon as she walked in the door she said ok I wont ever drop another piece of litter(She had been tripping up over herself all day, bumping into things generally an off day) Lol Well if the faeries where trying to teach her a lesson it worked Lol!
Thank you for sharing your experience with us it is very much appreciated.
Love and Light OpalRaven
|
|
|
Post by Brysing on Mar 30, 2011 1:21:28 GMT -5
In recent years I have been rather amazed,even a bit upset, at how much of what were closely guarded secrets have been revealed. Like The Da VInci Code; I know it is fiction and mostly rubbish, but there is quite a bit in there that shook me! Other books, and the internet, reveal knowledge that once was secret; such as much of Freemasonry. TV documentaries,etc. It would not be so bad if that were all. But the fiction of magic gets mixed up with the truth, such as the ridiculous Harry Potter,and that is extremely misleading to the young! I despair of the kids on SoM! That site has so many "covens" that the mind boggles! I will stick to my solitary "work"; my little altar, for what years I have left. I am still very fit and healthy, still believe that the Goddess watches over me, and that she has done since 1954. Even before that! Mrs Marshall told me that she had cast a protection spell for my safety in Korea. I came home without a scratch. Of course, many others did as well! But? Maybe?
|
|
|
Post by Lady SilverVixen (Admin) on Mar 30, 2011 6:45:32 GMT -5
I don’t personally have any problems with “The Beast”, though I’m not into Thelema or even pretend to understand half of Crowley’s writings. I also don’t believe that he was “evil”, just a bon viveur who enjoyed his infamy and that his work went a great way to inspiring and influencing a lot of what makes up modern WMT work including Wicca. So he was a drug addict, but then it was fashionable to take opium and heroin in the late 19th Century, even Conan Doyle wrote about Sherlock Holmes’ drug addiction. He probably would have been highly objectionable in person, but I imagine also a fascinating man.
Similar, though off on a tangent, is the way I feel about Harry Potter. Yes it is ridiculous, but it never intended to be a manual for serious magical work in the same way that Clan of the Cave Bear can be considered a serious anthropological study of Neanderthal society. Potter is an enjoyable piece of fiction intended to entertain children and pauperise their parents and nothing more, and if say 5% of the kids who get interested in magic because of it go on to actually form a serious practice, then I think it’s done a good, if unintentional, job. Rowling herself has gone on the record saying she doesn’t believe in magic and witchcraft. By the way, Alan Rickman as Snape, definitely the work of dark forces!
Yes, there are several groups who lay claim to the Magical Battle of Britain, which is mostly attributed to Dion Fortune as she recorded the events at the time in her letters. I’ve also heard about covens of witches all getting together to repel the German invasion, along with accounts of churches praying for the same thing. It’s entered modern British folklore for certain, whoever was “responsible” for it, perhaps everyone was.
|
|
|
Post by Brysing on Mar 30, 2011 7:23:48 GMT -5
I think a forum on such as Crowley might be better on another thread, as this one was mainly about covens. I agree that Crowley did influence quite a few! In fact some of his writings are very much in line with Gardner and Sanders, and others, (Doreen Valiente?) I don't suppose he was entirely evil, but evil in parts! I mean, was Hitler entirely evil? I don't think anybody is! Often mistaken perhaps. We are human; sometimes we stumble,sometimes we fall!
|
|
|
Post by Lady SilverVixen (Admin) on Apr 4, 2011 4:12:15 GMT -5
I think a forum on such as Crowley might be better on another thread, as this one was mainly about covens. My post was in response to several comments previously made about Crowley and the subject had already somewhat gone off on a tangent, which isn't in itself a problem. I think equating Crowley with Adolf Hitler, albeit in a loose slightly jokey way, is a bit much. One was a bisexual drug addict who gave the world some fine esoteric writings, and the other was an anti-semitic fascist who tried to orchestrate racial genocide. Though If you would like to start a separate thread about him somewhere else on the forum I'd be happy to discuss him there. In response to the rest of your post, yes, it's widely thought that Valiente adapted parts of Crowley's Gnostic Mass and The Book of the Law (also some parts of Leland's Aradia which Gardner had already borrowed from for his version of the Charge) for her Charge of the Goddess.
|
|